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Post by raggedycheryl512 on Jun 27, 2011 16:49:30 GMT -8
Not just big words, but lots of syllables in those words! (personalities: 5 syllables, double points!)
You are always welcome to toss around those big words anytime. In fact, you can claim to be some impressive psychiatrist and we wouldn't know the difference! Paging Dr. Jayne Pagano....
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Post by bethp0201 on Jun 27, 2011 18:11:44 GMT -8
I believe the unendearing quality that so many of the characters (but especially Delia, Mary, Seneca, Frank, and Roger IMO) seem to share, is their sense of entitlement. Bucky, by far the most entitled person on the show, simply by virtue of his incredible wealth, is one of the few characters who almost never displays this quality at all. Really the biggest difference between Mary and Delia IMO is simply the way their personal sense of entitlement is manifested in their repsective personalities. disclaimer: of course I really don't know what the hell I am talking about but it's fun throwing about the big words and high-minded concepts, and since I am separated and live with my two autistic teenage sons, I can alleviate my lack of social contact here LOL I was so impressed with what you said~ sounded good to me! Glad to be one of your contacts, give your boys a hug from me. You too! Beth
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Post by scarlettudor on Jun 27, 2011 18:42:59 GMT -8
Yeah, there's a fine line between self-confidence and a sense of entitlement. Dee is the only one who kind of doesn't fit there. She expects, aspires to be the precious center of the family. But she really doesn't have self-confidence at all. She should, she moves people around like chess pieces at her whim.
Sorry to hear you're going through a separation, Jayne. I went through that 20 years ago, finally ending in a divorce after 4 years. And two autistic teenage sons is really rough. My 17-year-old nephew has Asbergers Syndrome. My 9-year-old granddaughter is also diagnosed with that.
Sue Ellen
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Post by jwinks on Jun 27, 2011 20:23:27 GMT -8
oh thank you ladies for all your kind words, and Sue Ellen, it is challenging, but I have been their mom for 20 years.........Nathan just turned 20, so he really is no longer a teenager, and Nick is 17, going into his last year of HS.......so we have been together a long time, I don't know any other life LOL
anyhow, I think you are right Sue Ellen that Delia has no self confidence or self esteem, but I think entitlement is different, and I think even though she feels insecure she still thinks she has a RIGHT to a certain level of treatment and standard of living.......she is always complaining about being treated unfairly, as if she is somehow entitled to be treated fairly.........when in reality none of us is really entitled to be treated fairly especially by our inlaws LOL.........if you know what I mean....
geez I have gotten in the habit of poking in here right before I go to sleep and then I want to start gabbing when it's time to go to sleep
paging Dr. Jayne Loudmouth I really have to stay away from here late at night I digress way too much LOL goodnight folks
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Post by Echo on Jun 27, 2011 22:28:28 GMT -8
I so agree that Mary can be as immature & self-centered as Dee. For as much as Mary points out Dee's many faults (and justifiably so...Dee's no picnic, either) Mary can't see that she's just as babyish & insistent on her own way. She constantly pressures Jack in one way or another...Imo, if sex is the be all & end all to a marriage, it's not all that great of a love/romance to begin with! Don't get me wrong...it's certainly a big part of marriage & a wonderful part, but Mary acts like Jack will never speak to her again if they can't get it on first....if that's the case, what kind of "true love" is that? I also think Mary's main thought isn't sex, but kids....her trying to pressure Jack into parenthood is what sent him running from the house early on his business trip in the first place. Her "grounds for annulment" jab was meant to bring Jack to heel...well, it backfired big time & now they're all paying the price. I know Mary is meant to be the show's precious heroine, but her appeal escapes me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi Spvati, Very insightful post. ITA with how you see things. -Echo- (btw, every time I see your happy face Avatar,i t makes me smile.
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Post by Echo on Jun 27, 2011 22:56:17 GMT -8
I believe the endearing quality that so many of the characters (but especially Delia, Mary, Seneca, Frank, and Roger IMO) seem to share, is their sense of entitlement. Bucky, by far the most entitled person on the show, simply by virtue of his incredible wealth, is one of the few characters who almost never displays this quality at all. Really the biggest difference between Mary and Delia IMO is simply the way their personal sense of entitlement is manifested in their repsective personalities. disclaimer: of course I really don't know what the hell I am talking about but it's fun throwing about the big words and high-minded concepts, and since I am separated and live with my two autistic teenage sons, I can alleviate my lack of social contact here LOL I was so impressed with what you said~ sounded good to me! Glad to be one of your contacts, give your boys a hug from me. You too! Beth~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi jwinks,(and welcome to the board!! I agree whole heartedly with Beth. You DO know what you are talking about! What you wrote makes perfect sense to me. There are several characters on RH that do possess a sense of entitlement, along with extreme insecurities. It goes to show that the writers got more into the personalties, and personality traits of characters, more so than on other soaps. It's so much more entertaining,(imo) to watch character driven SL's instead of plot driven ones. Where characters are pawns for the bigger picture of a specific SL, and they don't get as developed as characters such as Delia, Jill, Frank, Seneca, etc.. Maeve and Johnny are written with complexities instead of the stereotypical matriarch and patriarch of a show. Interesting, what you pointed out about Bucky being the person who is entitled, (meaning his coming from old money, his family being 'old society'). Again great writing, as IRL, (in my experience anyway), extremely wealthy people always seem more 'normal' than a person who has the need to 'prove' how worthy they are. Where what appears to be a sense of entitlement may just be a mask for a person who does not feel worthy of much. Bucky is just a regular guy, much more so than Seneca, who feels compelled to tell everyone what is best for them, or Delia, who has too many problems to go into! JMO's, anyway. -Echo-
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Post by originalbunnymom on Jun 28, 2011 18:45:39 GMT -8
oh thank you ladies for all your kind words, and Sue Ellen, it is challenging, but I have been their mom for 20 years.........Nathan just turned 20, so he really is no longer a teenager, and Nick is 17, going into his last year of HS.......so we have been together a long time, I don't know any other life LOL anyhow, I think you are right Sue Ellen that Delia has no self confidence or self esteem, but I think entitlement is different, and I think even though she feels insecure she still thinks she has a RIGHT to a certain level of treatment and standard of living.......she is always complaining about being treated unfairly, as if she is somehow entitled to be treated fairly.........when in reality none of us is really entitled to be treated fairly especially by our inlaws LOL.........if you know what I mean.... geez I have gotten in the habit of poking in here right before I go to sleep and then I want to start gabbing when it's time to go to sleep paging Dr. Jayne Loudmouth I really have to stay away from here late at night I digress way too much LOL goodnight folks Jayne!
I am so sorry that your state (where are you again?) doesn't provide an educational setting through age 21 for children with autism.
We are very fortunate here in NYS (as high as the taxes are) that this is <covered> for these students.
Having worked with special needs kids for almost 25 years, I would hope things might be changing all over this country, but with the horrible cuts to education nationwide, I'm not surprised it will be a long time coming.
Do you have an advocate for your boys? How are your community resources set up to help you? I would be glad to put you in touch with some stellar people in the field, if you would like me to...
Always remember about angels on shoulders (most especially children with autism).
All Good Thoughts, Marianne
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Post by jwinks on Jun 29, 2011 3:37:22 GMT -8
OH Marianne here in VA we do have all kinds of services. Nathan, my 20 year old, is home on a break from WWRC, a facility for persons of all ages with disabilites. He has done great there. He will be going back soon, to take his behind the wheel driver training. Then he will be starting at a local supermarket chain he interned with while at the center.
And Nick will be graduating HS in June 2012. Both boys could have continued in HS until age 21, but they both were able to have a "normal" curriculum and get a regular HS diploma. Nick would like to drive big-rig trucks........we'll see!
Sorry my post was misleading..........they are just both home with me now because it's summer.....
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Post by luryanfan on Jun 29, 2011 6:49:40 GMT -8
Hi Jwinks ! i live about 10 miles from WWRC and know a couple of the nurses there. How about that, a small world. LuAnn And they do wonderous things there, a great place.
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Post by scarlettudor on Jun 29, 2011 7:22:04 GMT -8
Jayne (here I go, high jacking again! ), my granddaughter gets great services for autism/Asberger's in Pennyslvania. I don't think my nephew gets as much in West Virginia. However, my sister took him for an interview with Rehab services that offer a summer school in life skills. He did not want to go. He said he wouldn't know the kids and they might not like him. And he wanted to do his own thing with his summer (be on the computer 98% of the time). My sister and the rehab guy tried to talk him into it, but he was having a 'meltdown' from stress over it. My sister says he must go next summer. It's 9 a.m.-3 p.m. I think that's another thing he didn't like. My granddaughter is in a special camp this summer, that my daughter got paid for through a grant. She is very proactive in getting services for L. But, then, so is my sister for T. I'm glad your boys are doing so well. T wants to work on or around trains in some capacity. Sue Ellen
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Post by jwinks on Jun 29, 2011 11:54:47 GMT -8
LuAnn, Nathan LOVES WWRC! They have made such a difference in his life.
Sue Ellen, you will be amazed at what these children can accomplish. That 's great about the camp for your GD. I have heard WV does not have as much to offer. In fact, it is much cheaper to live there and I am only 11 miles from the WV line. I thought about moving there at one point and that was one of the biggest factors in staying here.
I will suggest this for your nephew. If the whole family just treats it as if it is not negotiable, giving him a year to prepare should work pretty well. Nick was so afraid to go to a new school in 6th grade when elementary ended. We started talking about it when he was in 4th grade. Mentally he was more "ready" by the time he entered grade six.
Sounds like both of those kids have great parents who care and do all they can. That's the most important thing.
now I have to take at least some responsibility for the thread hijack myself, I think I am the one who started yakking about my kids........ thanks to all of you for your good wishes.
Give me a month or two to remember who everyone is!!!
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Post by bethp0201 on Jun 29, 2011 13:48:26 GMT -8
LuAnn, Nathan LOVES WWRC! They have made such a difference in his life. Sue Ellen, you will be amazed at what these children can accomplish. That 's great about the camp for your GD. I have heard WV does not have as much to offer. In fact, it is much cheaper to live there and I am only 11 miles from the WV line. I thought about moving there at one point and that was one of the biggest factors in staying here. I will suggest this for your nephew. If the whole family just treats it as if it is not negotiable, giving him a year to prepare should work pretty well. Nick was so afraid to go to a new school in 6th grade when elementary ended. We started talking about it when he was in 4th grade. Mentally he was more "ready" by the time he entered grade six. Sounds like both of those kids have great parents who care and do all they can. That's the most important thing. now I have to take at least some responsibility for the thread hijack myself, I think I am the one who started yakking about my kids........ thanks to all of you for your good wishes. Give me a month or two to remember who everyone is!!! I'm still learning too, but the pictures seem to help me sort people out. I must be more visual than I thought!
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Post by destclev on Jul 4, 2011 21:48:07 GMT -8
I am SO sick of Mary. I realize this is probably RH Heresy...since I know she is like the mainstay of the show for a long time...but I can't stand her. I hate to say this but I can't even feel sorry for her right now.
I also have to say, if my husband were that close to death, and he was suffering that much, I would just be so grateful that he is alive and able to communicate, I wouldn't much care about impotence or insurance - to the point of basically harassing him; I think, for at least a little while, I'd be enveloping myself in gratitude and relief.
And most importantly, I'd let him get rest and sleep, so he can recover faster. She's busy telling the doctors not to do their tests but its okay for her to show up at the hospital at 2:30 am.
What annoys me most, in terms of Jack's treatment, is Mary's constant haranguing of the doctors. "Oh, Alex, why does he have to be in pain? DO SOMETHING!" Like what, Mary? They're doing everything they can.
Or, "When is he going to be all better, Alex. I need to know NOW!" Sorry, Mary. Alex doesn't know. I wanted to cry with happiness when Alex finally said, "Do you want me to make something up just in order to give you an answer?" This kind of writing makes Mary appear to be completely immature and self centered. It's all about her reactions, her fears, her need for other people to wave magic wands to rearrange reality to suit her. And her complete lack of gratitude for the fact that Jack is alive, and her appalling lack of patience.
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Post by destclev on Jul 4, 2011 21:52:54 GMT -8
I also think Mary's main thought isn't sex, but kids.... Completely agree, Susan. The feeling I get is that Mary thinks Jack's main concern will be the end of their sexual relationship, but that hers is their inability to reproduce themselves (again).
And why on earth she should think that now, when his life is in a complete shambles and he feels like everything in his life is out of his control, he's going to be happy about her pregnancy when he was completely opposed before, when things were going well...I'll just say that it's a mystery.
More from the Mary Ryan School of Wishful Thinking, of course.
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Post by Echo on Jul 5, 2011 3:30:43 GMT -8
I am SO sick of Mary. I realize this is probably RH Heresy...since I know she is like the mainstay of the show for a long time...but I can't stand her. I hate to say this but I can't even feel sorry for her right now.
I also have to say, if my husband were that close to death, and he was suffering that much, I would just be so grateful that he is alive and able to communicate, I wouldn't much care about impotence or insurance - to the point of basically harassing him; I think, for at least a little while, I'd be enveloping myself in gratitude and relief.
And most importantly, I'd let him get rest and sleep, so he can recover faster. She's busy telling the doctors not to do their tests but its okay for her to show up at the hospital at 2:30 am.
What annoys me most, in terms of Jack's treatment, is Mary's constant haranguing of the doctors. "Oh, Alex, why does he have to be in pain? DO SOMETHING!" Like what, Mary? They're doing everything they can.
Or, "When is he going to be all better, Alex. I need to know NOW!" Sorry, Mary. Alex doesn't know. I wanted to cry with happiness when Alex finally said, "Do you want me to make something up just in order to give you an answer?" This kind of writing makes Mary appear to be completely immature and self centered. It's all about her reactions, her fears, her need for other people to wave magic wands to rearrange reality to suit her. And her complete lack of gratitude for the fact that Jack is alive, and her appalling lack of patience. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ITA with both of your posts, Jackie and Debbie. (I just wrote a reply to your post about Jack's pain, Debbie.) What is the world is the matter with Mary? (hubris, as you posted, yes, I agree, what else could it be?) She has no empathy for Jack, I'm finding it hard to watch. The poor man is in extreme pain, very depressed, and Mary gets upset he is not 'cheery'. She should be dancing in the streets!! Because Jack made it, that he is alive, that he will survive!! I know Mary Ryan is supposed to be a fine upstanding character, but if Delia were acting as Mary is, frustrated when she sits at her husband's bedside, because he is 'irritable', (and she stays for like two minutes.) YIKES! Need I say more? Mary, Why don't you read Jack one of his favorite novels, I bet he would like that!! -Echo-
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Post by destclev on Jul 5, 2011 4:14:24 GMT -8
Mary, Why don't you read Jack one of his favorite novels, I bet he would like that!! -Echo- Or better yet, one of hers~
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Post by Echo on Jul 5, 2011 20:29:59 GMT -8
Mary, Why don't you read Jack one of his favorite novels, I bet he would like that!! -Echo- Or better yet, one of hers~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Either way, Debbie. Wouldn't it have been a lovely scene,(considering the circumstances) seeing Mary reading to Jack at his bedside, with Jack looking relaxed and enjoying her presence? Knowing she is there, even if he dozed off, would have been of great solace to Jack. So much better than Mary always saying 'Alex this', and 'Alex that', which has Jack's hackles up!! And Mary usually come into Jack's room, attempts some awkward conversation, then makes a polite excuse to leave. -Echo-
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Post by destclev on Jul 5, 2011 20:34:30 GMT -8
And Mary usually come into Jack's room, attempts some awkward conversation, then makes a polite excuse to leave. -Echo- How can she be expected to stay when things aren't going her way? Whenever that happens, she has a deep-seated need to return home, so that someone -- anyone! -- can reinforce how right she is, how wrong Jack is, and what a wonderful, sainted martyr she is.
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Post by forte on Jul 6, 2011 0:17:34 GMT -8
{{How can she be expected to stay when things aren't going her way? Whenever that happens, she has a deep-seated need to return home, so that someone -- anyone! -- can reinforce how right she is, how wrong Jack is, and what a wonderful, sainted martyr she is.}}
Bingo! Whenever there is even a possibility that some self-doubt (or should I say insight) may be headed Our Mary's way, she immediately returns to the Ryan Compound for a dose of "telling you what you want to hear."
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