The problem of (portraying) pain

[fairplay28]

Jul 6, 2011 3:42:32 GMT -8 gladrags said:

Jul 5, 2011 19:21:06 GMT -8 @destclev said:

By contrast, Siobhan and Jack were deeply, truly in love without so much as exchanging one kiss.

Excuse me while I hurl. Jack did not love Siobhan as anything more than a sister.

Jack had sexual feelings for Siobhan. He said as much. I think he cared for her very deeply, and not in a sisterly way, but not in a romantic way either. Mary was the love of his life, probably for all the qualities that caused their strife. Siobhan, on the other hand, was in love with Jack and turned to Joe to help her get over him.

[destclev]

Jul 6, 2011 13:01:53 GMT -8 fairplay28 said:

Jul 6, 2011 3:42:32 GMT -8 gladrags said:

Excuse me while I hurl. Jack did not love Siobhan as anything more than a sister.

Jack had sexual feelings for Siobhan. He said as much. I think he cared for her very deeply, and not in a sisterly way, but not in a romantic way either. Mary was the love of his life, probably for all the qualities that caused their strife. Siobhan, on the other hand, was in love with Jack and turned to Joe to help her get over him.

Jack did tell Siobhan that he loved her. He acknowledged that he had "fallen in love with" her while Mary was off at work.

But he did make clear, many times, that Mary was the love of his life. On the other hand, he told Siobhan, in their final conversation in which he said, basically, "Go find someone else," that as drawn as he was to Siobhan, his commitment was to Mary, and he intended to honor that commitment.

Beyond the bare facts, there's so much to interpret. That's part of what makes it so much fun, isn't it?

[raggedycheryl512]

Jul 6, 2011 13:01:53 GMT -8 fairplay28 said:

Jul 6, 2011 3:42:32 GMT -8 gladrags said:

Excuse me while I hurl. Jack did not love Siobhan as anything more than a sister.

Jack had sexual feelings for Siobhan. He said as much. I think he cared for her very deeply, and not in a sisterly way, but not in a romantic way either. Mary was the love of his life, probably for all the qualities that caused their strife. Siobhan, on the other hand, was in love with Jack and turned to Joe to help her get over him.

Personally, I don't agree. As a very wise man once said, "You tell the story your way; I'll tell it mine."

[destclev]

Jul 6, 2011 13:09:32 GMT -8 raggedycheryl512 said:

Jul 6, 2011 13:01:53 GMT -8 fairplay28 said:

Jack had sexual feelings for Siobhan. He said as much. I think he cared for her very deeply, and not in a sisterly way, but not in a romantic way either. Mary was the love of his life, probably for all the qualities that caused their strife. Siobhan, on the other hand, was in love with Jack and turned to Joe to help her get over him.

Personally, I don't agree. As a very wise man once said, "You tell the story your way; I'll tell it mine."

So many people who've watched this storyline play out over and over, and who know these characters backward and forward, and we come to very different places in the ways in which we perceive it. I do think the Jack-Siobhan relationship was one of the most complex, layered ones the writers ever created.

[fairplay28]

Jack told Siobhan he wanted her but his sexual relationship with Mary was special because it was exclusive. He told her that he loved her, but I don't remember him saying he was in love with her.

[destclev]

Jul 6, 2011 13:20:06 GMT -8 fairplay28 said:

Jack told Siobhan he wanted her but his sexual relationship with Mary was special because it was exclusive. He told her that he loved her, but I don't remember him saying he was in love with her.

I too don't recall Jack saying he was in love with Siobhan, but I do recall his acknowledging that he was, both when Siobhan talked about it and when Mary accused him of it. That's why I used the word "acknowledged." It felt to me like Jack wouldn't ever have chosen to say it that way himself, but didn't feel like he could deny it when someone else did.

[raggedycheryl512]

Jul 6, 2011 13:14:46 GMT -8 @destclev said:

Jul 6, 2011 13:09:32 GMT -8 raggedycheryl512 said:

Personally, I don't agree. As a very wise man once said, "You tell the story your way; I'll tell it mine.";

A very, very wise man.

[forte]

Differing is not the same as skewed. There's a wide world of opinions in here and it makes for a richer buffet of ideas and insights. I think I'll celebrate the intellectual diversity and invite all of you to do the same. Vive la difference!

[destclev]

Jul 6, 2011 14:08:00 GMT -8 forte said:

Differing is not the same as skewed. There's a wide world of opinions in here and it makes for a richer buffet of ideas and insights.

Absolutely!

[raggedycheryl512]

Ok, the joke was the reference to the very, very wise man. I was quoting Mr. Schmoe from another thread (can't remember which one it was.) But his line was so appropriate, so I used it here.

[Mr. Schmoe]

Jul 6, 2011 14:37:51 GMT -8 raggedycheryl512 said:

Ok, the joke was the reference to the very, very wise man. I was quoting Mr. Schmoe from another thread (can't remember which one it was.) But his line was so appropriate, so I used it here.

I'll take the credit - although true credit goes to the writers of "Daria".

[raggedycheryl512]

Jul 6, 2011 14:39:48 GMT -8 Mr. Schmoe said:

Jul 6, 2011 14:37:51 GMT -8 raggedycheryl512 said:

Ok, the joke was the reference to the very, very wise man. I was quoting Mr. Schmoe from another thread (can't remember which one it was.) But his line was so appropriate, so I used it here.

I'll take the credit - although true credit goes to the writers of "Daria".

Great. I just now mentioned you on the other thread.

[jwinks]

Jul 6, 2011 14:08:00 GMT -8 forte said:

Differing is not the same as skewed. There's a wide world of opinions in here and it makes for a richer buffet of ideas and insights. I think I'll celebrate the intellectual diversity and invite all of you to do the same. Vive la difference!

at the risk of being boring, ITA with you!!

it sure beats watching the show all by myself with no one to discuss it with.......get feedback from!!!