carol
Johnny's Best Irish
Posts: 145
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Post by carol on Jul 6, 2011 8:27:31 GMT -8
I remember Mary's line about Frank's new expected baby (that the Ryans are so pleased with themselves that they like when there's more of them) from when I first saw Ryan's Hope, way back in the 70's.
That simple statement of hers almost astounded me back then, 'cause I guess I didn't feel that way about my family.
Also, her statement is almost a key to the Ryan's psyche. They are, in fact, pleased with themselves and their Ryan blood (except for the Chicago Ryans!) and they actually celebrate it, like Texans celebrate being from Texas. (I have a Texan son in law) =)
The kids were raised believing totally in themselves, and loving themselves and each other. And they really do seem to think there's nothing better in the world than to be a Ryan, and that anything is within their grasp.
That outlook can be very uplifting and supportive. I suppose it can also set one up for a fall, as in when Mary investigated the mob herself, instead of calling in help first, etc.
All in all, I still think the idea of a large, close, bouyant, Irish Catholic city clan was a great idea for a soap.
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Post by destclev on Jul 6, 2011 9:14:38 GMT -8
I remember Mary's line about Frank's new expected baby (that the Ryans are so pleased with themselves that they like when there's more of them) from when I first saw Ryan's Hope, way back in the 70's. That simple statement of hers almost astounded me back then, 'cause I guess I didn't feel that way about my family. Also, her statement is almost a key to the Ryan's psyche. They are, in fact, pleased with themselves and their Ryan blood (except for the Chicago Ryans!) and they actually celebrate it, like Texans celebrate being from Texas. (I have a Texan son in law) =) The kids were raised believing totally in themselves, and loving themselves and each other. And they really do seem to think there's nothing better in the world than to be a Ryan, and that anything is within their grasp. That outlook can be very uplifting and supportive. I suppose it can also set one up for a fall, as in when Mary investigated the mob herself, instead of calling in help first, etc.
On balance, is this outsized "Isn't it great to be me/us" attitude good or bad? I can't say. I can say that I'd be happy to have Pat or Siobhan as my friend. Frank, probably, because he is capable of standing back and reconsidering when he's called on his attitude. Mary I don't think I'd want to spend much time with. In the end, she always has to be right, and if you don't see things her way, she'll browbeat you till you do. That's a rather tiresome characteristic. |
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carol
Johnny's Best Irish
Posts: 145
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Post by carol on Jul 6, 2011 9:31:18 GMT -8
Yours is an interesting question, Debbie: can there be too much of an 'Isn't it great to be me/us attitude.'
One wants their child to be confident and unafraid, but not to the point of being overbearing and arrogant. And as you pointed out, Mary is a prime example of too much of a good thing: She always just goes a tad too far, being a tad too....confident, a tad too sure.
Obviousy there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance.
Definitely Pat and Siobhan are not arrogant. They are more more likeable, as you've pointed out, too.
Mary and Frank...the two that have grown up so very close to each other.....have they nurtured that arrogance in each other? Or did their parents nurture it?
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Post by PucaShell on Jul 6, 2011 10:06:01 GMT -8
Carol wrote;
One wants their child to be confident and unafraid, but not to the point of being overbearing and arrogant. And as you pointed out, Mary is a prime example of too much of a good thing: She always just goes a tad too far, being a tad too....confident, a tad too sure.
===============================================================
For Mary, this overdone confidence and lack of empathy and understanding of Jack
is why this marriage is on the rocks.
Mary's sister Kathleen finds a man that is more suitable and 'pliable' in successfully
dealing with the 'it's so greate to be us' Ryan clan. A point which really gets
Jack's goat.
Puca;)
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Post by gladrags on Jul 6, 2011 10:25:56 GMT -8
Definitely Pat and Siobhan are not arrogant. They are more more likeable, as you've pointed out, too. Pat certainly is not arrogant. He probably could use a little bit more just to beef him up some. Right now he's a despicable doormat. Siobhan, on the other hand ... spoilers a-comin' for the faint of heart Would someone who is not arrogant waltz into their parents' home with a gigantic dog? And insist on keeping it there? Or announce to their devout Catholic parents that she was going to work at a family planning organization? Or continue to become involved in a fight that wasn't hers, despite the danger to herself and her friends and family? Siobhan is as arrogant as they come. Maybe even moreso than Mary, because Mary is able to take criticism and Siobhan is not. |
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Post by raggedycheryl512 on Jul 6, 2011 11:11:43 GMT -8
Definitely Pat and Siobhan are not arrogant. They are more more likeable, as you've pointed out, too. Pat certainly is not arrogant. He probably could use a little bit more just to beef him up some. Right now he's a despicable doormat. Siobhan, on the other hand ... spoilers a-comin' for the faint of heart Would someone who is not arrogant waltz into their parents' home with a gigantic dog? And insist on keeping it there? Or announce to their devout Catholic parents that she was going to work at a family planning organization? Or continue to become involved in a fight that wasn't hers, despite the danger to herself and her friends and family?quote] Finn MacCool was comic relief. No one brought a large hairy dog to a crowded NYC apartment. He became Johnny's dog and a huge thorn in Maeve's side. (Providing even more opportunities for her to present her scowly-face.) As for her work with Family Planning or investigating the rent strike? Mary Ryan, the virgin, told her mother she was going to get birth control (Maeve didn't much like that, either) and took on all sorts of investigations as a "crusading journalist." Heh. Chavonne was a highly principled young woman who appreciated Jack in a way Mary never did. She and Jack had romantic chemistry, but not sexual chemistry, so I'm not sure that these two would have made it as a couple. But the character is definitely someone to admire. |
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Post by Mr. Schmoe on Jul 6, 2011 11:33:29 GMT -8
Would someone who is not arrogant waltz into their parents' home with a gigantic dog? And insist on keeping it there? Or announce to their devout Catholic parents that she was going to work at a family planning organization? Or continue to become involved in a fight that wasn't hers, despite the danger to herself and her friends and family? Siobhan is as arrogant as they come. Maybe even moreso than Mary, because Mary is able to take criticism and Siobhan is not. I don't think you are using the word "arrogant" in the same sense as the rest of us are. I've noticed that people often use this word as a general purpose insult, rather than retaining its actual meaning. Footnote: Classically, the word "ignorant" has also suffered this fate (people using it as a general purpose insult). |
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Post by gladrags on Jul 6, 2011 11:36:14 GMT -8
I don't think you are using the word "arrogant" in the same sense as the rest of us are.
adjective /ˈarəgənt/
Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilitiesYep, that's Siobhan, all right. |
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Post by destclev on Jul 6, 2011 12:16:14 GMT -8
I don't think you are using the word "arrogant" in the same sense as the rest of us are.
adjective /ˈarəgənt/
Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilitiesYep, that's Siobhan, all right.
Simply saying something doesn't make it so.
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Post by destclev on Jul 6, 2011 12:17:57 GMT -8
Siobhan is as arrogant as they come. Maybe even moreso than Mary, because Mary is able to take criticism and Siobhan is not. |
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Post by fairplay28 on Jul 6, 2011 12:21:52 GMT -8
Footnote: Classically, the word "ignorant" has also suffered this fate (people using it as a general purpose insult). . |
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Post by destclev on Jul 6, 2011 12:22:29 GMT -8
Chavonne was a highly principled young woman who appreciated Jack in a way Mary never did. She and Jack had romantic chemistry, but not sexual chemistry, so I'm not sure that these two would have made it as a couple. But the character is definitely someone to admire.
Whether Jack and Siobhan could have made a relationship work is another question altogether, and I'm probably with you on that -- it would've been tough. We may get there for different reasons, though. I think that in Jack's mind, his feelings for Siobhan were so complex and so tied up with Mary, and his problems with and guilt about Mary, that he probably could never have broken free to love Siobhan without the other baggage getting in the way. But to me, those two were the real soulmates. |
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Post by gladrags on Jul 6, 2011 12:25:47 GMT -8
Respectfully, if you perceive Siobhan as arrogant, I think you don't understand her at all I could say the same about you if you don't see her as arrogant, self-involved, selfish ... If you don't agree with Siobhan, she'll bully you until you give up. She's a tornado with attitude, and a mommy-didn't-love-me-enough chip on her shoulder. Cry me a river. I hate the character of Siobhan. Deal with it. |
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Post by PucaShell on Jul 6, 2011 12:30:54 GMT -8
Footnote: Classically, the word "ignorant" has also suffered this fate (people using it as a general purpose insult). . LOL  ;D |
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Post by destclev on Jul 6, 2011 12:34:53 GMT -8
I hate the character of Siobhan. Deal with it. |
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Post by destclev on Jul 6, 2011 12:36:57 GMT -8
Footnote: Classically, the word "ignorant" has also suffered this fate (people using it as a general purpose insult). . |
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Post by forte on Jul 6, 2011 14:18:01 GMT -8
I don't think I'd be bothered by Mary's saying that line about the Ryans; it's their expectation that everyone else be that pleased with them, too, as if they had a divine right to it.
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Post by originalbunnymom on Jul 6, 2011 17:55:05 GMT -8
I sooooooo wish we could get to see the arrival of Siobhan, the Lovely Lioness and Finn McCool, Basement Boy...
<ULTRAAAAA SIGHHHHHHHH>
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Post by destclev on Jul 6, 2011 18:54:00 GMT -8
I sooooooo wish we could get to see the arrival of Siobhan, the Lovely Lioness and Finn McCool, Basement Boy...
<ULTRAAAAA SIGHHHHHHHH>
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Post by forte on Jul 7, 2011 13:54:56 GMT -8
I so wanted to see Siobhan again. I'll miss that AND fake blind Delia.
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;D
Dec 6, 2021 13:11:49 GMT -8
Dec 6, 2021 13:11:49 GMT -8