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Post by Echo on Jul 27, 2011 22:56:38 GMT -8
Nor do I see him as Jack's friend. If he were ethical, he would have told Mary that in no uncertain terms, she was not to tell ANYONE about Jack's condition, before he learns of it. It was a doctor/patient privilege issue, and Alex broke that trust. (Mary has no boundaries, but that's another topic.) Taking Mary for a drive to Connecticut was not professional, and and just rotten, as Jack's 'friend'. Considering the shape Jack was in at the time, both physically and physiologically. Alex makes these little comments, a word hear and there, that shout loudly and clearly that he does not empathize with Jack's condition, from the beginning to where Jack is at now. Rather sees Mary's point of view, always. He judges jack's reactions in all aspects of his convalescence, from his reactions to pain, to the now public issue of Jack's dysfunction. I don't see Alex as Jack's friend, more as a man who has picked up an old competition with Jack, as he told Mary(of course), that they competed years ago over women. Alex is too into Jack 's wife. Another thing, WHY on earth, when Mary called Alex on the phone, at Jack's request that he needed to speak to him/see him, as his DOCTOR, did Mary leave the message: " Tell him Mrs.Fenelli called." Are you kidding me!!?? Instead of "HIS PATIENT, JACK FENELLI needs to speak to/see him." That was just wrong, inaccurate, and of course selfish, as we're talking about Mary Ryan, oh yeah Mary Ryan Fenelli, (when occasionally she remembers she is married, as she is having an 'all Ryan' baby, and everything.) If Jack and Mary could be alone for more than five minutes once in a while, Jack would have healed emotionally, far quicker. (imo, of course.) I will close with something that I totally believe. (if these people were real, that is. When Jack says he wants Mary to himself, 'in a hole with him', (the metaphor Jack used), he just means the way they lived before his accident. A new couple, spending time together, but other people were welcome in their home! It is as if Mary still lives home, as actually she is, because of Jack's serious misfortune, and she has reveled in it, to the point of insulting JAck, behind his back. I don't see Mary wishing she and Jack could have been in thier own home over the holidays, far from it. She gossips about Jack, in an ugly way, which I find disturbing. Jack really enjoyed the dinner party with Pat and Faith. He never had a chance to adjust to marriage, and for a solitary type of person, boy, did he ever get a bad deal! Having been seriously injured, then thrust among a large group of people-Mary's real world, her family, and a father-in-law who hates him, and has from day one. I don't believe Jack wanted Mary 'all to himself' in a hermit in the woods kind of way. He just wanted to have a honeymoon period to their marriage! (and why shouldn't he have!?) But what am I thinking!? Jack didn't even get a full week's honeymoon, because Mary's brother's marital issues were more important to his new wife, than their actual real honeymoon!! I'd be really grumpy if anyone ever talked to me the ways Johnny speaks to him!! -Echo-
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Post by destclev on Jul 28, 2011 5:56:40 GMT -8
Did anyone else find it a little odd when Mary said, in her attempt to explain why she waited so long to inform Jack about his condition: "...and you took the accident so hard..."
Excuse me, he nearly died in the accident. He nearly did numerous times during the surgery. He was in agony for weeks. And Mary's version of this is "You took it so hard"? Good lord, how exactly was he supposed to take that?
She is in la la land now. She has no tethering at all to reality. At least, not to Jack's reality. And empathy? That's not a word with which she's acquainted.
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Post by forte on Jul 28, 2011 9:44:02 GMT -8
Echo, when I read the title of this thread my first thought "or Jack's friend." Then I read your post and see that is where you were going, too. Alex should have excused himself from this case as soon as it was safe to do so. There is no reason that another specialist couldn't provide care to Jack once he was no longer critical. This is another example of why family and friends shouldn't provide medical care. There are too many issues with boundaries and conflicts between roles. I think an ethical physician and a friend would have known to remove themselves from the case.
Of course, this happens under the watchful eyes of Mr. Beaulac, who obviously didn't agree with my opinion when he was still allowed to touch the surgical instruments.
As for taking the accident so hard, I don't even know how to being to explain that line or sentiment. Is she implying that Jack is exaggerating the accident? That he should be over the emotional impact by now? Sometimes she just seems so fourteen.
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Post by jwinks on Jul 28, 2011 9:55:56 GMT -8
I had more empathy than that when I was fourteen LOL maybe just four?
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Post by bethp0201 on Jul 28, 2011 10:10:15 GMT -8
I'm really going to give Mary slack on that one~ you took it so hard meant to her you were having such a hard time, maybe she said her line wrong, but I'm sure she wasn't slighting him with that commernt. I loved the way she stuck up for him against her father.
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Post by fairplay28 on Jul 28, 2011 10:37:31 GMT -8
Me too. I think the line meant the accident was so horrible and he was in so much pain.. That fits more with the gist of what she was saying,IMO, than the notion that someone else might have taken it better.
Mary is obviously anguished telling Jack about his condition.
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Post by destclev on Jul 28, 2011 10:45:36 GMT -8
Me too. I think the line meant the accident was so horrible and he was in so much pain.. That fits more with the gist of what she was saying,IMO, than the notion that someone else might have taken it better.
Mary is obviously anguished telling Jack about his condition. I agree that she was in anguish, but maybe have a different take on why. I think she's scared to death that Jack will leave her, and that's what's driving her fear and anguish. Of course there's no way to prove this one way or the other. Just my sense of it. I do think she's greatly lacking in empathy.
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Post by fairplay28 on Jul 28, 2011 11:06:29 GMT -8
Nor do I see him as Jack's friend. If he were ethical, he would have told Mary that in no uncertain terms, she was not to tell ANYONE about Jack's condition, before he learns of it. It was a doctor/patient privilege issue, and Alex broke that trust. (Mary has no boundaries, but that's another topic.) In those days of yore, doctors gave news to the family, often withholding pertinent info from the patient. It wasn't up to Alex to tell Mary not to tell anyone. That was Mary's secret to keep or not keep. Taking Mary for a drive to Connecticut was not professional, and and just rotten, as Jack's 'friend'. Considering the shape Jack was in at the time, both physically and physiologically. Even Maeve thought the outing was a good idea. So why blame Alex?
Alex makes these little comments, a word hear and there, that shout loudly and clearly that he does not empathize with Jack's condition, from the beginning to where Jack is at now. Rather sees Mary's point of view, always. He judges jack's reactions in all aspects of his convalescence, from his reactions to pain, to the now public issue of Jack's dysfunction. I don't see Alex as Jack's friend, more as a man who has picked up an old competition with Jack, as he told Mary(of course), that they competed years ago over women. Alex is too into Jack 's wife. He probably is too "into" Mary, but she's not "into " him.I agree Alex is very sympathetic to Mary. He really does not approve of the way Jack is treating her. But then again, nobody does. Mary is the most tolerant of his behavior.Another thing, WHY on earth, when Mary called Alex on the phone, at Jack's request that he needed to speak to him/see him, as his DOCTOR, did Mary leave the message: " Tell him Mrs.Fenelli called." Are you kidding me!!?? Instead of "HIS PATIENT, JACK FENELLI needs to speak to/see him." That was just wrong, inaccurate, and of course selfish, as we're talking about Mary Ryan, oh yeah Mary Ryan Fenelli, (when occasionally she remembers she is married, as she is having an 'all Ryan' baby, and everything.) I just can't agree. She was in tears when she called Alex. When the service asked who was calling she gave her name as Mrs. Fenelli, which was appropriate. What seems odd to me, is that there wasn't an emergency number where he could be reached. Surgeons always have one, and often they even return the call. If Jack and Mary could be alone for more than five minutes once in a while, Jack would have healed emotionally, far quicker. (imo, of course.) I will close with something that I totally believe. (if these people were real, that is. When Jack says he wants Mary to himself, 'in a hole with him', (the metaphor Jack used), he just means the way they lived before his accident. A new couple, spending time together, but other people were welcome in their home! It is as if Mary still lives home, as actually she is, because of Jack's serious misfortune, and she has reveled in it, to the point of insulting JAck, behind his back. I don't see Mary wishing she and Jack could have been in thier own home over the holidays, far from it. She gossips about Jack, in an ugly way, which I find disturbing. Jack really enjoyed the dinner party with Pat and Faith. He never had a chance to adjust to marriage, and for a solitary type of person, boy, did he ever get a bad deal! Having been seriously injured, then thrust among a large group of people-Mary's real world, her family, and a father-in-law who hates him, and has from day one. I don't believe Jack wanted Mary 'all to himself' in a hermit in the woods kind of way. He just wanted to have a honeymoon period to their marriage! (and why shouldn't he have!?) Life intruded on them from day 1. Jack is a loner and it is hard for him to share himself even with Mary. He may have been speaking in metaphor, but at the moment he said it, it was close t the truth.But what am I thinking!? Jack didn't even get a full week's honeymoon, because Mary's brother's marital issues were more important to his new wife, than their actual real honeymoon!! I'd be really grumpy if anyone ever talked to me the ways Johnny speaks to him!! We agree there. But Jack does hate Johnny almost as much as Johnny hates Jack.-Echo- This situation is a tragedy because Jack and Mary are both in terrible pain.
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Post by marshadancer on Jul 28, 2011 11:51:07 GMT -8
.... It is as if Mary still lives home, as actually she is, because of Jack's serious misfortune, and she has reveled in it, to the point of insulting JAck, behind his back. I don't see Mary wishing she and Jack could have been in thier own home over the holidays, far from it. She gossips about Jack, in an ugly way, which I find disturbing. But what am I thinking!? Jack didn't even get a full week's honeymoon, because Mary's brother's marital issues were more important to his new wife, than their actual real honeymoon!! I'd be really grumpy if anyone ever talked to me the ways Johnny speaks to him!! Thank you for this great post. (All posts on this thread have been nice to read.) I agree with everything but I copied some main points. I think that patients' rights are better than they were in 1976. Patients were often treated like their brain was damaged. This still occurs sometimes. I'm confused about these phone calls to the doctors. Is there a reason that Jack doesn't dial the phone himself. His fingers are not broken. Mary certainly conspires to keep Jack out of the loop about his own care. This frame of mind isn't unique; it's old-fashioned and unenlightened, and it isn't respectful to the patient. Right after Jack consulted with Clem, Clem came out and conferred with Mary as if Jack had mental problems. Clem didn't consider that Jack's point of view might be more than paranoia. He violated Jack's privacy big time. I cannot stand the situation that Jack is in. The show is making Jack out to be selfish, and he is just trying to survive. Someone please tell me what happened at the end of today's show, the second episode. Was Jack day dreaming or did this really happen? If Mary really kissed Alex three times, then she is not only selfish but she is careless about what she puts out there. Mary and Alex both know that Jack's self-esteem has taken a huge blow. His jealousy, warranted or not, does exist, and Mary and Alex should take care of this person they supposedly love.
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Post by raggedycheryl512 on Jul 28, 2011 12:47:32 GMT -8
They really kissed. It was such a loud smack that -- not having paid close enough attention -- I rewound to see if Mary were actually kissing Frank. "Oh, Alex, you're too good to us" or something like that.
Jack was still in his room but got a half-smile on his face, I guess while contemplating the future surgery. (His hope was that when he was fixed, Mary would still be there for him. So he was still thinking of how much he loved Mary.) He wheeled himself towards the living room just in time to see Mary and Alex making mad passionate love on the rug in front of a roaring fire.
(I might have dreamed that last part.)
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Post by destclev on Jul 28, 2011 15:56:30 GMT -8
They really kissed. It was such a loud smack that -- not having paid close enough attention -- I rewound to see if Mary were actually kissing Frank. God, you have me chortling tonight!
**
Three kisses. Okay, one kiss you might chalk up to gratitude. Misguided delivery system, but gratitude. But three? Give me a break!
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Post by originalbunnymom on Jul 28, 2011 16:46:57 GMT -8
They really kissed. It was such a loud smack that -- not having paid close enough attention -- I rewound to see if Mary were actually kissing Frank. God, you have me chortling tonight!
**
Three kisses. Okay, one kiss you might chalk up to gratitude. Misguided delivery system, but gratitude. But three? Give me a break! And the last one, (as quick as it was), was definitely a quick SMOOCH... on the LIPS...
Marianne
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Post by destclev on Jul 28, 2011 18:18:01 GMT -8
God, you have me chortling tonight!
**
Three kisses. Okay, one kiss you might chalk up to gratitude. Misguided delivery system, but gratitude. But three? Give me a break! And the last one, (as quick as it was), was definitely a quick SMOOCH... on the LIPS...
Marianne I did notice that. Do you think that last one was maybe NOT in the script? Maybe just Kate being impish?
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Post by discomusic on Jul 28, 2011 18:42:39 GMT -8
in another few seconds and they would have been french kissing and nude on the floor(on top of the green blanky) .....hey Dee walks around half nude ALL the time and no one in the house notices
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Valerie
Johnny's Best Irish
Posts: 191
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Post by Valerie on Jul 31, 2011 8:48:45 GMT -8
Hi Echo Well said, couldn't have said it better! I've been building up a real distaste for Alex and the so many inappropriate comments and "bonding" with Jack's wife Mary....it's crazy but even tho I'm outraged with Mary for blabbing about Jack's private business (oh and the way they blatantly say "the word(s)" OUT LOUD on such a sensitive private subject is sickening to me, like Maeve chatting about "impotence" and telling Jack that she's "beyond blushing" that's BIG of her...and Mary blabbing out "sexual disfunction" so casually (or did I dream it? lol) for shame for shame!) oh, before I interupted myself (again) I was saying that its crazy but no matter how outraged I feel with all the disrespect etc., when Mary is HURT by Jack's understandable harsh bluntness, it really pull at my heart strings how utterly sad she feels, her eyes, her tone of voice(barely audible), she breaks my heart with her sincere hurt, even if brought on/caused by her lack of discernment/discretion! Oh, and James regarding the green blankey, did anyone notice that when Bucky was helping Pat move out(and Clem helping also?)there was a threadbare green blankey in one of his boxes?? I just hope when laundered they use a half a cup of Borax 20 Mule Team and a little ball of Downy "laugh out loud"! Not that the green blankets would be in such need of intense cleaning, but one can't go wrong with those ingredients added to detergent!
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Post by safeandsound on Aug 1, 2011 10:13:10 GMT -8
I realized today that Alex is like one of Mary's girlfriends. While I believe he is a good family man -- I can't think of any man I know who would be interested in discussing baby names for a child that isn't his. Or they'd politely ask the name choices -- but not be interested in the meaning and reasons behind them.
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Post by fairplay28 on Aug 1, 2011 10:22:52 GMT -8
Men on soaps often act in ways actual men don't. LOL.
I think mary thinks of him as another brother.
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Post by raggedycheryl512 on Aug 1, 2011 11:44:02 GMT -8
Men on soaps often act in ways actual men don't. LOL.
I think mary thinks of him as another brother. And we all know how Mary loves her big brother.
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Post by safeandsound on Aug 1, 2011 13:29:05 GMT -8
Men on soaps often act in ways actual men don't. LOL.
I think mary thinks of him as another brother. And we all know how Mary loves her big brother. She would be quite interested in state Alex's love life if he was her brother, too -- and set him up with the only other Coleridge available -- Roger!
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Post by safeandsound on Aug 1, 2011 14:20:32 GMT -8
I forgot to add I did like Alex's reminiscing about he and his wife and their baby.
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